Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  45

  The Theocratic Life and Times of Theodore Jaracz - NEW

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the theocratic life and times of theodore jaracz .

  by barbara anderson.

  [we are doing a special focus on the dark side of brooklyn bethel for a couple of weeks over at freeminds.org].

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  Doubting Bro

  Really interesting. Thanks for posting this!
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  88

  The next dub that says "the light's getting brighter" to me...

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...is going to get his punched out.

  yes, friends, this is another thread about the latest generation teaching.

  so, if you're sick to death of it, leave now, save yourselves.... anyhoo... as the wts has now unleashed on the world the true explanation of generation and what it means for those of us in this time of the end, dubs who accept without question this teaching are 'oohing' and 'ahhing' as the new explanation 'makes so much sense now'.

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  Doubting Bro

  They're clearly grasping at straws. The more I think about it, the angrier I get at the insult to the intelligence the explaination truely is. It's not quite as unbelievable as the (still on the books) teaching that the seven seals of Revelation were 7 conventions in the 1920s but it's not too far off.

  If I hadn't wakened up by now, this change certainly would have made me question.
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  14

  The ad hoc Generation

  by TD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to me, the word, "generation" has always been one of those fuzzy terms with an annoyingly slippery definition set.. i have a blood relative who was the very youngest child in a family of 13. the age difference between him and his oldest siblings is more than twenty years and some of them were actually married and had children of their own before he was even born.

  therefore some of his nieces and nephews are actually older than he is.

  one nephew that he was especially close to when he was growing up is almost exactly his age, as they were both born in the same month of the same year.. a situation like this; where an uncle is the exact same age as his nephew can easily occur in very large families and makes you think about what exactly the term, "generation" really means.

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  Doubting Bro

  I think the DC talk as well as the CO talk actually did spell it out clearer saying that the overlap took place between those such as Franz who were "annointed" in 1914 and those who were annointed prior to Franz dying. I either saw or hear verbage to the effect of "annointed when the sign was first recognized". Since he lived to be almost 100 and was "annointed" prior to 1914 but barely, he would be a good example to use to make the point. I'm pretty sure Loshe started prior to 92 but not sure about the others.

  They aren't going to put it in writing because they really don't believe it. They want to give themselves wiggle room so when 20 years does pass and the end isn't here yet, they can say "well what we meant was alive in 1914" to give themselves another 10-20 years. Then, it will be GB 3.0's problem to deal with.

  TD - I agree that they are hanging their hat on the definition of generation as it relates to Joseph and his brothers being part of the same generation of family decendants. But, as others have mentioned, its clear that Jesus was talking to his disciples (who varied in age but had the common event of being is apostles at around the same time) and telling them that they would not pass away as a group without seeing Jerusalem destroyed.

  Even if Matt 24 had an future application, the timeframe between the "sign" and the end would also need to be about the same amount of time.

  I'm not sure why they don't just change the inspection/appointment to a more current date (say 1975) and either leave the "last days" at 1914 or even move it. They've done it before and it would make more sense than attempting to change the meaning of a common word.
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  43

  Exposing the Sickness: they printed letter to editor on the WT's treatment of Ray Franz in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, Sat.6/12/10

  by not a captive in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  closure isn't needed.

  in georgia recently, a religious "criminal" died.

  this one had been brought to account.

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  Doubting Bro

  nicely written
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  20

  Ray Franz obituary in Atlanta Journal Constitution

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/atlanta/obituary.aspx?n=raymond-franz&pid=143464974&fhid=5304.

  raymond franz | visit guest book.

  paid full name=raymond franz .

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  Doubting Bro

  BTTT

  Thanks Blondie.
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  87

  Official: Ted Jaracz's Funeral Brochure

  by yknot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this generous offering from 'anonymous brother'.

  his comments : hmmm...why do i not see such things at most jw funerals?.

  please give your 'thank you' to "anonymous brother'.

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  Doubting Bro

  Thanks for posting this yknot and thanks to "anonymous brother" for providing the info. Like others, I have seen this sort of thing done at JW furernal's before.

  As for using donated funds to print out the brochure, I seriously doubt a) any JW would care and b) it cost more than $50 total. Remember, it's a publishing company. Someone likely put this thing together in like an hour using photos they already had. I can't see why this would be that big of a deal.

  If you think about, it's not really a eulogy of Jaracz the man as much as it is a review of what Jaracz did for the WTS. Other than mentioning where he was born and when he got married, everything else seems to be related to his service to the WTS. So, even for the most influencial member of the GB, it's once again more about the organization than it is about the person. Same with most rank & file funerals although I've attended some that were very light on the recruitment and heavy on eulogy (my grandmother's being one of them - the speaker even cried).

  Honestly, I've seen more personal rememberance in retirement announcements than is in Jaracz's brochure. It's sad in way that a person would have a close working relationship having been in Bethel what almost 40 years and all they can muster is that he'll be "missed". The general consensus is that he wasn't a very pleasant man, so maybe that's the most positive thing they could say about him.

  It will be interesting to see when they decide to move to increase the number of GB members. 8 seems like a low number.
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  16

  Why are the British football team so useless?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last nights match was humiliating.

  and lets face it... if they even make it to the semi's it will be amazing!.

  ok you could say well they are playing agianst the best teams in the world... but other teams manage!?!.

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  Doubting Bro

  USA USA USA
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  32

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-13-10 WT Study (HOLY SPIRIT)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments you will not hear at the 06-13-10 wt study (april 15, 2010, pages 7-11 (purpose).

  as we have seen, jehovah used his spirit in the past to protect individuals as well as the nation of israel as a whole.

  why doesnt god protect individuals today?.

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  Doubting Bro

  Couple of interesting observations from the meeting I attended:

  1 - As others have commented, the opening song about the "light getting brighter" was blantant and set the stage. I thought, "wow, they wrote a song to be sung everytime they change something"! Guess it will be sung quite a bit.

  2 - The WT conductor was gearing up right at the beginning. When he asked the question regarding the change in generation, no one had their hand up. Reluctantly, one of the elders raised his hand to answer. Stammering, he put it out there. Then, followed up with an illustration of his own. He said, that his grandfather fought in WWI and his life overlapped with his grandfather's for about 15 years. So, he was able to learn from him and knew what type of person his grandfather was and some of what he experienced. Same with the annointed who were old enough to recognize the sign of 1914 and the annointed who came along a little later. It's an accurate description of what the WTS is saying, BUT, would anyone claim to be the same generation as your grandfather???? Uh, it renders the word generation useless.

  3. The WT conductor really hammered on the point that was brought out in the CO talk but missing from the explaination in the WT where the WTS is saying that the annointed old enough to witness the events of 1914 and recognize the sign are the beginning part of the "generation". The CO specifically mentioned Franz who was born in the late 1800s and was a young adult when 1914 came around and already baptized and thus "annointed". So, the WTC used the same illustration and held up a piece of paper. Then, he said that many on the GB were annointed prior to Franz dying and personally knew him so that their lives overlapped. A second piece of paper was held up. He made sure to then say that the two parts of the generation didn't run consecutively so that their was two entire lifetimes but concurrently, overlapping for some period and then the final part going on a little longer. He said it was a significant change because it meant the end was closer since some of the annointed will be on earth for the great tribulation.

  4. Much was made of the other changes. The number of partakers was discussed at length and the WTC said that that really didn't matter because the overlapping was only for those who were already annointed when the first part of the generation was still here.

  5. My wife, who never leaves for the bathroom during the middle of the meeting, left for the discussion?! We haven't talked WTS stuff in a long time but she was clearly uncomfortable because she knew this made no sense whatsoever. I decided to not bring it up but rather let her mull it over for a few days. I would rather her bring it up so it doesn't look like I'm picking on the WTS.

  It's obvious that they're grasping at straws. Clearly a direct reading of Matthew shows Jesus said that all this stuff would happen in his disciples lifetimes. And, some of the apostles survived to see Jerusalem destroyed. So, if you think it has a second meaning, logic would dictate a similar pattern. So, instead of admitting that the "composite sign" didn't start in 1914 (thus making the appointment as the faithful and discreet slave in their theology a point in the future and taking away the whole "God's organization" claim), they decide to reword what Jesus said.

  They have to revive a sense of urgency because the change in 1995 had the effect of removing the end from something that could happen tomorrow to something that will happen sometime in the future. This change bought them maybe 20 years? Of course, it doesn't make any sense but the WTC did his best to sell it. He's a bright guy and did a good of trying to make it fit. But, there was an air of uneasiness and afterward only one person made metion of it to me and he said he would need to reread it because his head was spinning.
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  39

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-06-10 WT Study (YOUNG PEOPLE) TEST PLEASE FORGIVE ME

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  young people strengthen your desire to serve jehovah.

  what invitation was extended to children in the christian congregation?

  serve god or the wts?.

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  Doubting Bro

  paragraph 13 went over like a lead balloon at the meeting I attended yesterday. Many of the elders and ms are college graduates. In particular, there is a MS there who JUST gradutated with honors after attending on a full scholarship. Everytime I look at him, I feel a sense of pride that he decided to take care of himself and not listen to those who would have told him to turn it down.

  Only 1 person commented on the paragraph and it had to do with something that happened 20 years ago. No discussion, just moved on. My wife later said that "Cherie" was crazy to turn down the scholarship and that she knew I wanted our kids to go to college and said the elder conducting was definately going to send his teenaged kids to college! I pointed out that he may lose his eldership based on what I had been told about a CO visit a year or so ago. I still don't know if that's a hard and fast rule about reviewing privleges but I sense it depends on the body. Her response "no way, that doesn't make any sense". Exactly, unless you're in a controlling cult.

  The point about "Cherie's" participation in sports was also not unnoticed. Since when is it OK for JW kids to participate in organized sports?? I thought only the "spiritually weak" did that? Does this mean it's now ok?
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  26

  What's Next For The Watchtower Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any predictions?.

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  Doubting Bro

  Beth Sarim - First, welcome!

  OTWO & Tuesday were just throwing predictions out there! I'm actually suprised they haven't reduced the DCs to 2 days already. Remember they used to be what 7 days? I'm old enough to remember the 4 day, then the shift to 3.5 days and finally to the current 3 day. I agree with OTWO that they will move to a 2 day DC sometime shortly under the theory that they can get a similar donation amount but reduce their expenses. I guarantee that NO ONE will complain about it either. The Friday attendance is usually 20-25% lower than the Sunday peak so it really makes sense. I theorize that the reason they haven't done this sooner is they get such great deals on the various venues that are used around the country that the costs savings isn't enough. Of course, in some cases (such as in the NYC area), they're using the existing assembly halls for DCs (albeit smaller gatherings). If that trend continues, they may not reduce it to 2 days since they will want to make sure the buildings are being utilized as much as possible.

  Whatever the case, it will come down to money. That is the number one concern of the organization from my point of view.